Za heretika

[Sabol]

neznam dal si pogledao na GW sajtu....ali evo jedan post s kojim ces se vjerojatno sloziti....

a uspt je fun post.....

"
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: [40k] The Big Problem With WH40k. - mauglum
Replies [6]. This Reply Posted [2/9/2006 7:49].

Ok I realise that there are alot of gamers reading this thread.
All of whom have different levels of experience and expectations of WH40k and (war)gaming in general.

I can understand that those gamers who have only played WH40k,will say that WH40k is a fun game and they enjoy it as it is.

Well WH40k IS fun game.

But even gamers who have played WH40k for a while may feel WH40k lacks 'realism' common sense/logic to a certain degree.

I can understand some people getting aprehensive /defencive ,when some one suggests major changes so a game they know well.

Please be assured I do not want to turn WH40k into Newbury Rules Napoleonics.Just suggest some simple alternatives that would make the game play how we, sort of, expect it to.

It is just that WH40k shares the basic game mechanic of WH.
Yes it has been superficialy altered ,and the WH40k dev team have come up with some realy good ideas.
But it is fundementaly flawed idea to use cose combat oriented game mechanics with lots of ranged weaponry.
An extreem example is giving machine guns to boxers and expecting a boxing match ,rather than the brief shoot out that actually occurs.(Yes it is that barmy in my oppinion.)

In games development there are a huge amount of choices to be made.If you get the basics right the game can be developed in a progressive way.

IMO the dev team are trying to compensate for a unsuitable game mechanic, rather than objectivly looking at alternatives.

As a result the games development of WH40k is suffering.IMO.

The turn sequence I suggested earlier in this thread is a popular 'interactive' turn sequence that does play out like modern(futeristic) combat.
If you have watched the DOW intro film,then thats how I and lots of other people think war in the future is conducted.(Most modern conflicts run in this sort of order.)
Enemy moves into weapon range,gets shot at,then the enemy shoots back.etc.

One army moving shooting and then assaulting,while the opponent did nothing, only happened in army level conflict pre 19th century.
Regiments would wait for orders, from the CIC on the field.
They would stand still while cannon balls smashed into them ,and would be honour bound to wait for the enemy to get within stabbing range before fighting back.

It is so difficult to debate the values of alternative games mechanic and development methods ,when the people reading your posts have little experience of what you are suggesting.

It is like trying to explain what snow is to someone who has spent all thier life in the Gobi Desert.
Chunks of hard water falling from the sky,that sound dangerous!
(LOL)

Yes indeed altering the gamemechanics and rule sets to a large degree would mean a big overhaul of the system.

But everything would be re-valued and balanced proprely by the dev team afterwards.

So saying a particular army would be unplayable using current rules would be correct.But they would play as good if not better when the new rules and stats came out for them.

Or as another person suggested keep WH40k as is for the people who like it as it is,and release Advanced WH40k for those who want more of a 'wargame' than a 'hobby game'.

I would like WH40k to achive the level of exelence it deserves.
And I am happy to debate and disuss alternate rules and game mechanics, with other interested gamers ,untill we manage to get the optimum game we realy would like to play.

TTFN
Mauglum.
"

pogotovo mi je fun njegov opis turn sequenca :D

btw GW forum..... http://uk.games-workshop.com/forums/gamesdevelopment/

[Degman]

Zanimljivo....

Ako bi se ti prijedlozi mogli i nekako konkretizirati u stvarna pravila zanimalo bi me isprobati.


p.s. Nadam se da, unatoč naslovu posta, on nije namijenjen samo i isključivo Beri :D

[Heretik]

Evo, pročitao sam post i apsolutno se slažem sa njime.
Igra kakva je sada, je, bez uvrede, bar meni, malo debilna.
Priča (fluff) i modeli su super, a to i je ono što me navuklo na WH.
Iskreno, moja namjera je bila na bazi postojećeg sustava razviti
nešto što bi bilo relativno realno i kao što autor kaže:
wargame, not hobby game;
ali ako postoji šansa da to napravi GW, objeručke ću to prihvatiti.
BTW, ima nas nekoliko koji smo već počeli raspravu o tome
što i kako bi trebalo napraviti da to bude wargame,
pa ako se netko želi konstruktivno pridružiti,
nemam ništa protiv...čak dapače.
Welcome to the club.

[Sabol]

dakle pogledaj i druge stvari sto taj tip kaze.....

pa onda raspravu mozete iz lokalne grupe prebaciti na GW forum.
onda mozda i nesto official ispadne iz tog truda :D

a mozda vam se i prikljucim u raspravi na GW forumu

[Rasho]

Jel ti sta radis na poslu?

[Heretik]

UVIJEK

[TIFUSAR]

Našli se udarnici, j**o vas Alija Sirotanović!

[Heretik]

8) Nas par je počelo sa probama realnijih pravila,
u malim skirmišima, za početak...
(2 na 2 voda, u 8 odjeljenja, total ca 400 pt).

Isprobali smo:
- veći firepower
- overwatch
- odjeljenja
- podjelu paljbe
- ručne bombe

Rezultat je bio prilično realni fajt, naime,
poubijali smo se ručnim bombama i pucanjem.

Razvit ćemo pravila za rase koje imamo i igramo,
za početak, a onda sve ostalo. Preporučena
literatura za one koje zanima više, ili im nije
jasno kako koje oružje radi:

Jane's: Weapon Systems

Unutra vam sve piše....

[mkrulik@inet.hr]

Dodajte ovo-igrajte naizmjence(i pucanje-to če vam dati na realnosti).

[Heretik]

Razradi ideju i prezentiraj, na bojnom polju,
kako bi to trebalo izgledati. Načelno, za to imaš
overwatch.

[Rasho]

MI probali,fora!

[mkrulik@inet.hr]

Dobro jel onda ukidaš ono nemoguće tipa par tipva izleti iz šume i zabije sve protivnike zato što je njih manje.Nego oni izlete iz šume pucaju po jednima i onda dobe zato kaj ne mogu ubiti baš sve u isto vrijeme.

Po meni s tim igra dobiva na taktici.

Inače ono sve je uredu što ste smislili(tj probali dobiti na realnosti) ali onda igrajte i s realnim rasam(jer kao marinci su ovo ono-nemogući pa onda maknite i sve ostale nerealne rase(tiranide,eldare,marince,kaosovce,nekrone,demonolovce,orkove) mogu vam onda recimo ostati gardisti i tauovci.

Inače ono sa oružjima da rade d nešto wounda i nije baš dobro,jer onda neka oružja jednostavno ne rade ono što po flaffu rade(tj jedan gaunt koji puca fleshborer pukne sam jedan kratkotrajući organizam koji izjede ono što pogodi a po ovome on može napraviti d 10 woundova!-sa samo jednim crvom)

Inače bi samo predložio da umjesto toga jednostavnom rekalibrirate oružja na neku realniju razinu.Tipa lasgan(meni to izgleda ko neka karabina) puca ass x oružje i tako dalje.

Ne možete igrati na ubjanje nego i na nešto uzvišenije jel onda protivnik složi par unita sa boljim naoružanjem postavi ih na breg i samo im okida overvoč(pa ti dođi).

[Heretik]

Gle, napiši svoj prijedlog, pokušaj ga obrazložiti, argumentirano
i isprobaj ga idući vikend. Ak' funkcionira bolje i jednostavnije od
onog kaj smo mi smislili, zašto ne; a ako ne - NE.

Naša ideja je 40K just WAR, without HAMMER.